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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 15:08:49 GMT -6
if you really think you need to dump guys right now in order to be competitive, why wouldn't you just cut (or waive) Upton and Lincecum, save the same amount of money, eventually free up two resign slots and actually build around Scherzer. Yes he is a pitcher, yes he is getting older but he is also a top 5 finisher in the Cy Young for the past 3 years (with one win), so he is just as much a stud SP as there is, except for maybe Bumgarner who according to this league is worth 3x as much (haha). No offense meant, but according to your profile you took over the Giants on Feb 29th, it takes more than a week to revamp a team. Enjoy it, have fun! By taking on Wright instead of Scherzer, I think your team not only gets weaker this year, but for the next few years, at least Max produces (and produces big). Like I said, if we can figure out how to include Ellsbury and I find a CF w SBs, I would be happy to have Scherzer on my team. I didnt make an offer because I wasn't chasing SPs, but if it is a give away, sign me up! You can not waive re-signs they can be bought out in off-season but their re-sign tag remains but you free up some cap space.
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Post by Giants on Mar 8, 2016 15:22:22 GMT -6
if you really think you need to dump guys right now in order to be competitive, why wouldn't you just cut (or waive) Upton and Lincecum, save the same amount of money, eventually free up two resign slots and actually build around Scherzer. Yes he is a pitcher, yes he is getting older but he is also a top 5 finisher in the Cy Young for the past 3 years (with one win), so he is just as much a stud SP as there is, except for maybe Bumgarner who according to this league is worth 3x as much (haha). No offense meant, but according to your profile you took over the Giants on Feb 29th, it takes more than a week to revamp a team. Enjoy it, have fun! By taking on Wright instead of Scherzer, I think your team not only gets weaker this year, but for the next few years, at least Max produces (and produces big). Like I said, if we can figure out how to include Ellsbury and I find a CF w SBs, I would be happy to have Scherzer on my team. I didnt make an offer because I wasn't chasing SPs, but if it is a give away, sign me up! Trust me this is fun, and I'm really enjoying rebuilding it. I'm not upset about the veto in the slightest, and it's sparking a discussion. I agree I rushed, and could of come to terms early in April, but as I said, this was the only legitimate interest I received. I don't view it as a dump, because I'm locked into those contracts for a while. I feel I got tremendous value for my other players, and saw the market for the 2nd best Pitcher was less than mediocre. I understand, patience is important, however, I'm not willing to take a chance of injury, because I do not have any long term interest in Max, so I feel it's important to move him before the season starts.
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 15:30:25 GMT -6
He is signed for 3 YEARS there is plenty of time to move him for fair value. There is zero reason to just move him for the sake of moving him when your clearly losing the deal by a lot.
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Post by Giants on Mar 8, 2016 15:42:59 GMT -6
Then there's a discussion about what his value is then with the re-sign tag. I think he had his best year already, his value will never be higher than this year, so I'm trying to sell him at his peak. I don't think waiting 3 years and having his contract run out as I couldn't get "Actual Value" because his market value was much lower is a good move.
If at his peak, there's no interest, and I have to basically tack him onto an existing trade in order to move him, I don't see a scenario where I'm going to get 2 to 3 strong specs or picks out of it which is what, in a perfect scenario, I would want for him.
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 15:48:29 GMT -6
Its MARCH 8th. You have 5 months to find any better deal and it would be an improvement on this horrible deal where you clearly lose and its not even close.
Depending on how things go early in the year I could have interest in Mad Max I have the re-sign spots but I want to see how things go before I would consider it right now my focus is on moving my excess OFers for help. This statement could go for a lot of teams because a lot can happen between now and Aug 31st.
Even if Mad Max was to get hurt this year he still has 2 more yrs after this to have value. I just think your rushing into dumping assets in March for no real good reason when there are up to 5 months left to move guys in 2016 Season.
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Post by PadresGM on Mar 8, 2016 19:42:06 GMT -6
The original trade that I proposed to Giants was Wright for Longoria and one of his negative value resign contracts. I knew Giants didn't have any resign contract open, so I was interested in acquiring Longoria. I offered him Wright so he would get a longer term 3B and because I don't need him with Longoria. I figured that would be good because not only does he get a 3B beyond 2016, he also got to move an albatross contract. I also figured that he could flip Wright if he wanted to.
After that, he said he would do Scherzer instead for a third base prospect so I offered him Riley. I figured Riley would be good as I based his value off of what Anthony Rizzo got and I figured that the difference between Rizzo and Scherzer would be about the 4 C+'s in that trade considering the difference in age, contract and the batter/pitcher difference, with Riley being equal to Bradley (who White Sox said could be the next Anthony Rizzo). Considering no one else is willing to pony up anyone better than Riley for Scherzer, I thought he would be good as he's a high ceiling teenage prospect who's already appearing on top 100 lists.
Not sure why everyone thinks it's Wright for Scherzer and I don't feel there's any disparity with my trade as Giants got a long-term 3B for a rental and a nice prospect for Scherzer but I guess you guys view it different than me. I'm assuming you guys feel Scherzer for Riley and Murphy is fine, but I needed to add something along with Wright for Longoria?
One more thing: is this trade officially void? Can I make another offer on Scherzer if this does get vetoed?
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 19:49:23 GMT -6
This is 2016 David Wright he is pretty average now a days. You won that deal by a mile it was not even close.
Giants is dumping valuable players because no one has interest in MARCH its a long freaking year its 5 months until the trade deadline and its not like Mad Max is a rental he is signed for THREE YEARS.
As for David Murphy he settled I believe for a MIL deal with Boston in off-season.
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Post by PadresGM on Mar 8, 2016 19:53:10 GMT -6
He looked good in his return in 2015. I figured that him for Longoria would be enough since Giants couldn't keep him. Was the issue that Longoria warrants more, despite being a rental?
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Post by PadresGM on Mar 8, 2016 19:55:31 GMT -6
I didn't know Austin Riley, someone who hit 12 home runs in only 200 at bats, for Scherzer is considered "giving away" Scherzer. Than again, I guess this league views fringe top 100 guys as valueless considering one was traded away for someone who barely has waiver wire value
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 19:57:02 GMT -6
You win the deal by a lot and you know you do I don't know what the argument is really about. You easily acq the two best players in the deal without question while trading a declining David Wright, a guy on a MIL Deal and a good prospect for an ACE SP and a 3B Upgrade.
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 19:58:00 GMT -6
One more thing: is this trade officially void? No Mad Max contract was corrected and trade is not void after it was corrected.
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Post by PadresGM on Mar 8, 2016 20:02:03 GMT -6
Is Riley not worth Scherzer? Especially since no one else is willing to give anything more? Or is Longoria worth more than Wright? I want to know so I can adjust what will probably be vetoed
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 20:29:39 GMT -6
Is Riley not worth Scherzer? Especially since no one else is willing to give anything more? Or is Longoria worth more than Wright? I want to know so I can adjust what will probably be vetoed Its MARCH 8th the Giants have been here since Feb 29th. To say that no one is going to give more based off him being able to shop him for a week is a bit much your talking about ONE WEEK Vs 5 Months of time to shop him (this year but he is signed for next 3-yrs) and get back more than a declining 3B, a guy competing for a 4th/5th OF job making a decent salary and a good spec while giving up the 2 best players in the deal where you acq an ace SP and a upgrade at 3B on the pretty cheap its a huge win/win for you while Giants losses. And to answer your question Mad Max is worth more than Riley straight up IMO. This is my opinion but I am also just one person.
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Post by White Sox GM (Jon) on Mar 8, 2016 21:02:21 GMT -6
I think Scherzer is worth much more than Riley, maybe 3-4 Rileys lol. Wright for Longoria would make sense, Longoria's the better player, younger, and better contract considering how much money is tied up in Wrights declining re-sign.
And if you look at it as Scherzer for Wright, that's not enough for an ace SP either, Wright just doesn't have enough value due to age, injury, and decline. Riley for Longoria would make sense though, current value for future type deal.
And Murphy doesn't have much value if any, he's a non-factor in this deal. He's on a milb fighting even for a roster spot.
So either way you cut it there's just not enough in return for Scherzer IMO. Either Riley or Wright is fine for Longoria IMO, but neither of those two is enough in return for Scherzer straight up.
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Post by White Sox GM (Jon) on Mar 8, 2016 21:03:25 GMT -6
That's how I see it anyway. Still got some thinking it over for their votes obviously.
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