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Post by Rangers GM (Pete) on Mar 8, 2016 10:01:55 GMT -6
I know I am not a voting member, but we don't seem to be putting trades into the Discussion thread anymore, so I will add my comments here.
So Max Scherzer is a salary dump?? He is a potential Cy Young and based on Free Agency signed to a cost friendly contract. I don't get this one. If anyone here is a salary dump, it should be Wright because of his injuries, contract and resign slot.
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Post by Giants on Mar 8, 2016 11:01:02 GMT -6
No dump on Scherzer. Maximizing my value. I tried shopping him around but because of his re-sign status the reaction is tepid. The contract itself isn't the problem ( especially when you see Maeda's)
Combined with Longo I get more (a blue chip prospect) then if I moved them separately, which seemed unlikely anyway.
If anything I'm trying to take on bloated and worthless contracts. I'd like to be near salary cap for the next few years with my roster looking like the fantasy baseball equivalent of the island of misfit toys, while I am rebuilding my team.
His value and fantasy relevance is precisely why I'm trading him. I'll still be in last place with him on my team so he holds less value to me than dump contracts.
Hope that explains where I'm coming from.
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Post by dbacksgm on Mar 8, 2016 11:25:37 GMT -6
I'm not a voting member either...but Wright for Scherzer is vetoable IMO. Longo for Riley and a $5M cap dump isn't exactly making up the difference.
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Post by Giants on Mar 8, 2016 11:57:16 GMT -6
That would be fine if I was getting interest in Scherzer.
Like I said, his stats are irrelevant to me as I'm no worse off with him than without him. You think Scherzer is worth more to you that's fine, but I didn't receive any offers from you and the best offers I did get for him were C+ guys.
If I was a marginally competitive team this year, then yeah the value would be off. But I'm not even minimally competive. I have one other SP that's actually breaking camp as a starter, and that was from a trade. My catcher is Grandpa Ross, I have no 1B, half of my team are bench players and no one really wants my best player.
I'm not complaining, I signed on for a challenge.
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Post by White Sox GM (Jon) on Mar 8, 2016 12:29:44 GMT -6
We haven't been requiring a discussion thread be created as they're almost never used, so it ends up just clutter. But if you'd like to comment on a trade, feel free to create one and get it going when you have something to say. Going to try and leave the main trade thread open for TAB voting. Thanks!
Trade in discussion is:
Padres trade: 3B David Wright $10,000,000 (2018) RESIGN LF David Murphy $5,000,000 (2016) 3B Austin Riley
Giants trade: 3B Evan Longoria $4,500,000 (2016) SP Max Scherzer $12,000,000 (2018) RESIGN
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Post by Rangers GM (Pete) on Mar 8, 2016 13:17:35 GMT -6
If I had a resign slot open I would be all over him, I don't recall considering him because of it, but if you were giving him away, I would find a way. And by taking on Wright you are not freeing up a resign slot. David Murphy is worth much at all and would not be retained. And Austin Riley is a decent prospect, but not a top one (IMO).
I would think you could probably get Murphy and Riley plus something for just one year of Longoria for someone who is looking to win or has a resign slot open. Then that leaves Wright for Scherzer, I am a Mets fan so it pains me to say that is not even close. A CY Young candidate in exchange for an aging injured Wright who at best plays 100 games.
I get you are desperate to move Max, but you are getting robbed here. Will be interested to see what the TAB says on this one. If I could find another CF option (Rockies??) I would give you Ellsbury (resign) and some better specs for Scherzer.
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Post by morf1980 (Rays GM) on Mar 8, 2016 13:18:49 GMT -6
At first glance the trade looks unbalanced in favor of SD.
However, pitchers in resign are weird when it comes to value. I know because it took forever to trade price and Lester. It isn't because they lack value, but I think it's because people tend to want to use their resigns on position players or pitchers that they choose.
Giants put scherzer on the trade block. He got the offers he got and picked the best one. Anyone else could have made a better offer.
I wouldn't accept this deal in a million years. To me, scherzer should be worth at least a couple prospects. And then I'm not even sure the rest of the trade is that balanced. BUT, I didn't make an offer for scherzer and didn't plan on it. If anything I just would have liked to have seen SF get some more prospects for max, but maybe no one was willing to offer that. If not, you move the guy for what you can get.
Again, very important that he did place him on the block and didn't just trade him without shopping him or letting others know.
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Post by Giants on Mar 8, 2016 14:08:31 GMT -6
We are also talking about longo. The best I was getting for Longo was C+ as well....I'm not getting people like Riley in that deal and don't see how It would be fair if I did.
The value on Scherzer is severely diminished, and when I didn't get a no or no response on inquiries, I got offers that really didn't help me out all that much. I heard things like, yeah I like Scherzer, but I have plans for my resigns and don't feel like moving around pieces. I wasn't getting one top tier prospect let alone 2.
Viewing other trades here involving re-signs that players worth is severely degraded, unless the acquiring player is desperate or high on the guy.
As to waiting? Why? Max's value is only going to diminish from this point out. He's in his 30s, and a number of things could go wrong with him at which point I have even less of an asset. I just want him off my team, as soon as possible, particularly if no one really wants him, as he's of negative value to me.
I made it clear I was going to take best offers for what I had, this was the best, I can't really help that. Again, if you think I'm giving him away, no one stepped up to take him. I received no independent inquiries about him. I got more for Longo.
I don't think it's fair to view this as lopsided on my side, I'm the seller, I can't even field a full team this year, and if he's on my roster at the beginning of the season, it's pointless production. You see a potential Cy Young award winner, I see a good player on a bad team that won't be good anymore when that team starts becoming good. Im in a singular situation for the next few years and assigning worth and value based on your teams is not fully appreciating the situation I am in.
If this was about me seeing this as a good deal, and not evaluating talent properly that would be one thing, but it's not, he was for sale and it was best offer.
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 14:32:03 GMT -6
You have until AUG 31st to trade players to settle on March 8 is nuts especially on a guy signed for 3-yrs it does not take 3-yrs to turn a team around it could be done in a year or two easily with good free agent signings plus some good trades not dumps.
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Post by Giants on Mar 8, 2016 14:46:27 GMT -6
At which point they can both be injured, and I'll get nothing in return.
If I wasnt already paying 20+ million a year for Melvin Upton, Lincecum, and Sandoval, maybe I could be a factor in free agency, but if Kenta Maeda is going for 16 million a year I don't see how I can make a run at enough guys until 2018, when those contracts expire. Which has been my plan all along as I'm timing the core group of young talent with bloated contracts expiring.
As to trades, this is what I have left of players with value. After that it is specs, picks and cap space.
In 2018 season Scherzer will turn 34, who knows what his value will be then, but I think it will be much less than what it is now. If he was on the right side of 30 I would agree with you and I would just be holding on to him.
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Post by White Sox GM (Jon) on Mar 8, 2016 14:47:01 GMT -6
In my opinion, the main issue is Scherzer being valued less than Wright. Their contracts are the same length, both re-signs, and nearly the same price. Contracts being essentially equal, I don't see how Scherzer can be valued less than Wright, or how he could be a negative if he has to stay on Giants roster. He's an ace and tough to acquire those in any fashion. He's only been on the block a few days, and it does take some time to find a good fit in this dynasty league since there's so many factors to consider. But I think an ace pitcher should be able to get a few specs or pieces of value in return if set on trading him. Something like Scherzer for Riley+Wright might even be close, but then Longoria's being thrown in for free. Either way I look at it I think it's just a little too lopsided and there needs to be another spec/pick or two going back to Giants to even this specific deal out.
Alternatively, depending how Giants FA and youngster call ups go, the team could be competitive in year or two. So there's no rush to give Scherzer away nearly free.
But maybe I'm severely undervaluing Wright and others see it differently. Fortunately we have the board to vote on it so we get a good range of opinions.
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 8, 2016 14:57:41 GMT -6
Trade is actually void as Mad Max is not even trasdable until next year here is his proper re-sign
Max Scherzer $12,000,000 (2016 NTC) (2018)
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Post by Giants on Mar 8, 2016 14:58:51 GMT -6
No, I think you're spot on with Wright.
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Post by Giants on Mar 8, 2016 15:01:50 GMT -6
Trade is actually void as Mad Max is not even trasdable to next year here is his proper re-sign Max Scherzer $12,000,000 (2016 NTC) (2018) I talked about this with Phillies. Max Was listed to re-sign under old re-sign rule of 3 years, when the new re-sign rule had already been intiated. The old GM Re-Signed Sandoval 3 days later with the correct NTC rule, the former GM just never updated Max's status.
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Post by Rangers GM (Pete) on Mar 8, 2016 15:02:09 GMT -6
if you really think you need to dump guys right now in order to be competitive, why wouldn't you just cut (or waive) Upton and Lincecum, save the same amount of money, eventually free up two resign slots and actually build around Scherzer. Yes he is a pitcher, yes he is getting older but he is also a top 5 finisher in the Cy Young for the past 3 years (with one win), so he is just as much a stud SP as there is, except for maybe Bumgarner who according to this league is worth 3x as much (haha). No offense meant, but according to your profile you took over the Giants on Feb 29th, it takes more than a week to revamp a team. Enjoy it, have fun!
By taking on Wright instead of Scherzer, I think your team not only gets weaker this year, but for the next few years, at least Max produces (and produces big). Like I said, if we can figure out how to include Ellsbury and I find a CF w SBs, I would be happy to have Scherzer on my team. I didnt make an offer because I wasn't chasing SPs, but if it is a give away, sign me up!
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