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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 21:09:12 GMT -6
One thing I wanted to note about making a trade or posting a trade block at this point in time is it may not be receiving a lot of attention. Most teams have been concentrating on free agency. Myself for instance probably havent read a trade block for a month. lol. Just really haven't had the time due to processing free agent wins and other things here. With free agency now about wrapped up and things slowing down, I'm sure over the next 2-3 weeks, trade blocks get far more attention than they have been recently.
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Post by PadresGM on Mar 8, 2016 22:28:19 GMT -6
I just saw that assumption that I know that I'm winning the trade. I really appreciate that dig on my integrity, Joey
So I guess the Wright for Longoria part is ok, but not Riley for Scherzer? I realize Scherzer is a really nice piece, but I don't see how he's worth 3-4 Riley's (who is a fringe top 100 prospect with a high celing). This is because I compared Scherzer to another stud who was traded recently who got approved 3-0, Anthony Rizzo. Rizzo is younger, cheaper and doesn't carry the risk that a pitcher does. He was recently traded for Bobby Bradley (who I see as carrying the exact same value as Riley) and 4 C+ prospects. Because of the aforementioned difference in value, I felt it was fair to remove the 4 C+ guys and just include Riley.
I'm not trying to argue against TAB; I'm just curious if there's something I'm missing something. Does the differences I mention between Rizzo and Scherzer not matter as much as I thought? Am I undervaluing the other pieces included with Bradley for Rizzo? Is the difference between Longoria and Wright larger than i thought?
I know I'm a TAB member, so I thought I was confident in my player evaluations, but I'm on spring break right now, so Ive been busy, and haven't had much time to look into trades, so I'm curious what I missed in regards to this trade. I know I must have missed something, as evidenced by the vetoes, as well as the other voices speaking against this trade. Once I know specifically what's imbalanced about this trade, I would be happy to make another offer to Giants that's fair in order to make this work. I'm glad all of you are looking out for the new guy and make sure he gets what he deserves
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Post by Rangers GM (Pete) on Mar 9, 2016 12:20:51 GMT -6
I know I am not a TAB member (thank goodness!!). But my input is as follows
David Wright for Longoria plus a crappy resign contract (Upton?) seems to make sense. But David Wright straight up for Longo seems off to me. Why not just keep Longoria and resign him, based on health issues along over the next 3 years Longo would have be to rated way higher than D Wright, back issue is going to bother him for the rest of his career.
As for Scherzer for Riley, I still don't think that is even close. Good point about the Rizzo deal, I don't really remember who else was included. I guess Bobby Bradley rates higher as a spec. Without checking I have to assume Bradley shows up on more top 100 prospect lists than Riley, maybe only because he has an extra year under his belt. But anyway, I think Scherzer is worth way more than Riley, prospects are valuable, but they are only prospects and a lot can happen.
Starting to think I gave up too much (Nomar Mazara +) for Starling Marte
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Post by Giants on Mar 9, 2016 12:39:01 GMT -6
I won't be able to re-sign Longo. I have 4 re-signs. Which was why I was trading Rizzo.
As far as the Rizzo deal goes, Bradley is a top 100, and is 20 and is further along than riley.
I also rate westbrook higher than c+, I think this year will determine his value, but if he returns to last year's production, he will rocket up lists.
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Post by White Sox GM (Jon) on Mar 9, 2016 12:44:16 GMT -6
I think there is not nearly as much difference between Scherzer and Rizzo as you are thinking. IMO, Scherzer and Rizzo are pretty much equal value stats wise, an ace pitcher with an elite K-rate, and a great hitter. There is some small value difference if you value pitching less, or because of age. But over the next three years of Scherzer compared to Rizzo they're pretty much equal, it's what happens after that and that's very unpredictable.
On top of that, Riley and Bradley do not have the same value. Bradley's proven his power at a higher level than Riley already. However much difference you think there is, he had a better HR rate, over a longer season, at a higher level. He also had a much better season than Riley when he was in Rookie ball if you want to compare apples to apples. Riley also isn't on MLB or BA's top 100 at this point, Bradley is on both.
And to say that Scherzer is so much less value than Rizzo that you cut out 5 extra pieces is absurd. We can debate the specific value of the specs/mlb guys forever as we all value specs differently. But fact is Rizzo alone got 2 MLB guys, 3 specs, and 1 spec SP who is close to starting in the Dodgers rotation this yera. Your comparison of Rizzo and Scherzer makes this trade look even more ridiculous lol.
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Post by PadresGM on Mar 9, 2016 12:53:24 GMT -6
Ok, I suppose I undervalued all the pieces in the Rizzo deal, while overvalued the differences between Rizzo and Scherzer. That's understandable and I'll be certain to make a better offer to the Giants
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 9, 2016 13:31:28 GMT -6
Trading Mad Max for another re-sign signed same length who is a worse player at this stage also made little sense for Giants esp with little in way of cap relief. Giants has been here about a week i think in time he will understand that guys have more value before FA and after FA but not during FA. And even more so near trade deadline.
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Post by rushmore (Reds GM) on Mar 9, 2016 14:34:47 GMT -6
The Rizzo trade was a travesty imo.
Bobby Bradley and a some C+ guys are not even in the same stratosphere of a package I would ask for. Spin coming away with Rizzo for that was highway robbery.
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Post by Rockies GM (Joey) on Mar 9, 2016 14:37:38 GMT -6
And for record I did not even get to cast a vote in that trade so I never really looked into it.
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Post by morf1980 (Rays GM) on Mar 9, 2016 15:42:36 GMT -6
At least rizzo was an expiring contract I think. So he will have to get paid and take up a resign spot starting next season.
Probably still worth more, but understandable.
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Post by dbacksgm on Mar 9, 2016 21:05:11 GMT -6
LMFAO These ignorant Sickels disciples make me laugh. It's amusing how a GM tries to justify a vetoed deal by comparing it to an approved deal that he's obviously very jealous of. It's even more amusing when his little buddy chimes in and also shows how jealous he is of said approved deal.
Silly little Sickels parrots...if only they had a brain of their own.
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Post by PadresGM on Mar 9, 2016 21:47:13 GMT -6
Are you referring to me? I don't need a 1B, so I have no reason to be jealous of the trade. I was just using it as a base, as Rizzo and Scherzer are both top-tier players. I needed to use that base since you don't see top tier players traded often.
And I didn't even look at Sickels' grades at all for this trade. I just use his criteria since that's the standard that many others use, so don't say I blindly follow him. I didn't know I was considered brainless for trying to compare the value of trades together and apply it for my situation. Than again, my evaluation was completely off, so I guess I am lol
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Post by dbacksgm on Mar 9, 2016 23:07:54 GMT -6
You're not brainless...You made a trade that was overwhelmingly in your favor. Trying to justify It however, not once but twice, by comparing it to my Rizzo trade is just sour grapes IMO.
Rushmore's comment even more so lol. Then again...I did get a PM from him right after my Rizzo trade calling me an expletive and crying that he was in negotiations for Rizzo lol. I think it went something like...."wah wah wah".
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Post by Giants on Mar 9, 2016 23:32:25 GMT -6
Sorry? I didn't realize the Rizzo trade was so controversial as well.
That came down to me liking Bradley a lot, maybe too much, judging by the reaction of some. I didn't see any player with a similar timetable that had me as excited as Bradley.
I guess I'm a lot higher on Westbrook as well. Pretty pumped about a 2b prospect that had a near 200 iso, and there's nothing too crazy in Babip to scare me off.
Considering how TAB has been pretty consistent in assistance and advice, I doubt Rizzo would have passed 3-0 if it was highway robbery. Dbacks benefited from timing, contractual situation and my slack-jawed admiration of a spec.
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Post by PadresGM on Mar 9, 2016 23:47:40 GMT -6
Sour grapes? Jesus Christ... Since, apparently, you assume that I'm upset that I didn't get him, you tell me where I would play him? Tell me what I would do with my $18M 1B that I got this offseason. This isn't about you at all. It's quite vain for you to think so
In case you didn't see what I said before, I used the Rizzo trade as my base to evaluate Scherzer's value as they are bother top of the line players. Believe it or not, I'm not spending my spring break pouring my time looking into deep research about everyone. I admit that I must have overlooked something, which i must have, as evidenced by the universal discord with my trade.
I completely respect TAB to come out and say that; the last thing I want to do is rip off a new owner. I do take offense to anyone that thinks I'm ripping off a new owner, or anyone that thinks that I am bitter about a different trade and that is making me want to complete a trade with the intention of it being imbalanced I'm my favor
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